Details Magazine stereotypes Asian men

Amazing. I think sending letters to the advertisers in the magazine is likely to be far more effective than picketing the publisher. The publisher will almost certainly relish the free publicity, but most advertisers will avoid such controversy like the plague (except for Abercrombie & Fitch, the less said about them the better).

hun... I like the way he's dressed, does that make me asian or homosexual. That thing is unbelievable...
Tell us more about Detail magazine... big, small, famous...?

Wow, can't believe that this is in a magazine in 2004. I'm totally in agreement with you on this.

I just hope the asian-american's protesting aren't protesting the fact that they are equated with being gay... that's not PC either.

I think that is where this gets a little grey. It seems to me that recently, with shows like "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy" and the general portraial of gays on TV and movies, if this ad had been only about gay people it would not have been seen as a problem by most. The gay jokes in the ad would be considered "hip".

Like I said, I'm totally in agreement, but I wonder if the backlash would have been so fierce if the add compared asian american's to say, a "kung-foo master". In theory this is just as bad, because it plays on stereotypes, but it is not seen as so bad because much of society does not see a "kung-foo master" as a negative thing. Being gay on the other hand, even though it's making progress, it's still not something that straight men like to be called. When was the last time you heard kids on the playground calling each other "kung-foo master!"?

Agree with the comment about advertisers. I skimmed this issue of Details at a bookstore - here's what I found.

There's a full-page Coach ad facing the Gay/Asian piece (!). Other advertisers included E. Zegna, DKNY, and Louis Vuitton. I wrote a couple of these advertisers (hard to ferret out contact info for most of them), and haven't had any response from any of them. So I guess I'm boycotting them.

Of course, given that I don't own anything from any of them except a Zegna shirt or two, they're probably not exactly holding emergency board meetings. It takes all of us...more specifically, if you share these ads with your Japanese friends, and they decided to boycott (unlikely though it may be) maybe it would get some reaction. Coach and Louis Vuitton can hardly afford to be non grata in Japan.

Details, way to go!!! Oh, sorry, I guess I'm supposed to be more politically correct. Alas, I am not.
Yes, I used to pick up Details, a men's magazine (but not in the use-with-tissues sense) with a medium-sized readership, for 1500 yen in Tokyo whenever I needed a bit of fluff in English.

Sorry, I haven't actually read the issue, seeing as how such mags are a bit hard to come by here, but I doubt if it was nearly as offensive as everyone purports it to be.

And how could I make a statement like that? Well, most men in China (where I live now) dress rather well. However, their clothing tends to be rather classic and somewhat conservative (often sticking with solids and dark colors).

As for younger men, the 'metrosexual'/collegiate look from the image posted here pales in comparison to some of the pretty boys preening in Shibuya, replete with a facial, makeup, and hairband.

A final comment before I finish, but I was rather struck by gen railing against 'this kind of stupidity by a national magazine' and all that.

Gen, I have to wonder if you're 'combatting negative stereotypes' all over, or just in the West where it might tend to be effective. I've noticed the kimigayo thread, which is a good start, but I'd like to wonder why Japan (where I was a gaijin) and even China (heck, I'm still a lao wei) are not being taken to task for more egregious stereotypes...

CBIII, have you actually read the piece in question? The intro:

"Gay or Asian? One cruises for chicken; the other takes it General Tso-style. Whether you're into shrimp balls or shaved balls, entering the dragon requires imperial tastes."

Come on, in this century it's not unreasonable to expect that magazines know better.

As far as racism in Asia, granted it exists (and it can be strong), but as your mom may have told you once "two wrongs don't make a right." How does racism in China or Japan make this kind of article acceptable?

Obviously, Dan, you're quite offended by this piece, so much so that you're suggesting (well, perhaps 'championing') a boycott to strike back at Details.

Why?

While your mother was absolutely right that "two wrongs don't make a right" (my mother says that, too), she also said "don't make a mountain out of a molehill" and "don't add fuel to the fire." Which is why I'd advocated letting the Details issue die a quiet death.

And then I suggested a shift in priorities and effort. While the Details article might rankle a few readers of an Asian background, there are many more pressing issues in Asia that deserve far greater attention and effort. Extending that thought, one of the largest problems in Asia (and specifically Japan and China) is blatant, discriminatory racism.

As an obvious example, Japanese and people of Japanese ancestry can obtain Japanese citizenship, while foreigners can NEVER achieve the same status. If a foreigner has a Japanese spouse, he is merely listed in Remarks on the spouse's family register - even if the foreigner adopts Japanese citizenship as Debito did, the gaijin never possesses his own family register. Thus, an unmarried foreigner of non-Japanese-ancestry is lawfully disenfranchised.

So while such egregious treatment continues, Dan, I would suggest that this problem deserves far more attention and effort than lambasting Details...

CBII. Although it is true that foreigners may not be able to get citizenship. Art least they are treated in a respectable way. In the US, Asians are treated in a disrespectful, condescending and sometimes downright hostile manner. I would rather not be able to get citizenship, but treated with dignity than be dismissed and ridiclued. Asian men are treated as less masculine than say blacks or Puerto Ricans by whites and expecially by Hispanics.
Even when I walk the streets of cosmopilitan Manhattan, I am treated with less than human dignity. About 2 weeks ago, a puerto Rican guy went out of his way to purposely bump into my chest, although I had moved all the way back to a building so as to get out of his way, because I saw him coming. When I go into stores, I get treated with disrespect. The tome of voice etc of the white, black or hispanic guy is way different than the respectful and softer tome they use on other customers.
So I would rather be treated the way a Gaijin is treated in Asia than the way an Asian man is treated in the US.
White girls in general look down their noses at asian guys as not being "man" enough. I say generally here, because I have had mostly white American girlfriends, but the majority don't treat Asian guys with the same respect and dignity they treat white guys. One time I was at a bar talking to a white guy who sat next to me. A white girl, a stranger, came up to us because she was interested in the white guy. Not only did she not even acknowledge my presence, she asked the white guy if he was gay. When asked why she thought so, the girl said to him "Then why are you talking to him? She had her back turned towards me and didnt even acknowledge me, yet she didnt mind insulting me right in front of my face!
Now what would you call that?!
Asian men are considered inconsequential and insignificant. That is the worse for of Racism you will ever encounter. Wharts worse is that you cant fight back to stand up for yourself, because
1)It is a woman
2)because they didnt do anything blatant towards you.
In such a case you cant do anything except walk away. But that is easier said than done, because it eats you up and stays with you forever.
I have so many such experiences. Sometime I wonder if I would be better off being discriminated because I was black. At least I would be feared if not liked if I was black.
Onetime in a crowded bar I needed to pass someone. I apologised to the white guy who looks like a skinny little version of Steven Spielberg, even though there was no reason for me to as I didnt bump into him or even cut him off. I was simply trying to get past him. I said excuse me and then I happened to turn around. I saw him give me a really dirty look. For what?!
Onetime I was in a crowded concert. I needed to get out of the crowd and I made my way out slowly and as gently as I could. I tried to avoid pushing people and said excuse me repeatedly. Even so, some young white girl, just jabbed me real hard in annoyance. I wonder if she would have done that if I was a white or black guy? What do you think? Why do you think she felt like she could do this to me and get away with it?
Of course these are very mild experiences compared to the 4 times I have ended up in the hospital because some white guy or hispanic American guy, decided to call me "chink" etc for no reason and then decided to punch me in the jaw, hit me with a 2 by 4, just because I was standing next to him. At least in these occasions I could fight back to gain my honor. But what about the times when a white girl insults and humiliates me in such a non physically aggressive way? You cant fight her. It is the worst degredation. Worse than being called names and being punched and assaulted.
When a magaize such as Details stereotypes asian guys, it reinforces the insults and reaffirms and reassures the "good Americans" that it is okay to go on with their condescending and arrogant actions towards Asian guys. Yeah, they can date or "desireable" Asian girls, but we asian guys are no better than eunnuchs to them. And these stereotypes not only reinforce this attitude, but make it "okay" for them to continue to humiliate us.

CBII I dont mean the above to include you. I respect any non asian person who goes to live and experience Asia. It shows me that you had the spirit to go live and learn from a foregin country. I myself have lived in many countries. Although I am Korean by birth, I lived in Britian, Europe, South asia and South East Asia since I was 3.
What I have learnt is that a common bond unites those of us who are willing to learn and live in a foreign country. Most westerners I met in Asia were of this type and I feel that we understand each other. A breed apart, who understand each others mindeset, just because of the varied eperience. It is the american who disdains to live and experience a foreing country who I have become paranoid and suspicious of. But how can I help being so paranoid. I used to be a very open and friendly person, who talked to strangers without hesitation. But after coming to Manhattan and its supposedly cosmopolitan mindset, I have had such humiliating experiences that my outlook as changed drastically. In fact 180 degrees. I am sure that there must be a lot of Asians out there who feel the same way.Picking up the thread again,
When you live in a foreign country you change. even the willingness to pick up and become an international person demands my respect. I wish more Americans would be tolerant and open to such ideas. My hats off to you for continuing your stay in Asia.

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Have any of you gotten spams in your emails about "hot asian girls -insert something pornographic-"? To a lot of people, "Asian" is a very common porn category, as opposed to a large part of the world's population. I wonder if "caucasian" is a porn category in Asian countries/communities. I for one have never seen that. So I can start to see how Asian "discrimination" towards caucasians is just ever so slightly different than the discrimination suffered by Asians in North America.

This article is insane! I am Asian-American and find this article extremely offensive. The problem is not that asians are supposedly in a certain category of sexual preference(although that is insulting). Whether or not you believe homosexuality is good or bad is irrelevant, the problem becomes one of broad generalization about any ethinic group and whichever sexual orientation they may have. If they (Details) were to say that all African-Americans are good at sports but inttelectually inferior the media would have shut them down. Bottom line: Asian-Americans don't recieve the same kind of respect that other minorities do.